Hammerwatch Forum
General Category => Hammerwatch Discussion => Topic started by: MadMan on December 16, 2013, 09:18:30 PM
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It seems like the community is still quite inactive. Which i mean, not very many maps being released. I know the only reason i haven't released anything, was that i was forced to format my computer, while unable to back up any files, meaning i lost my almost finished map. The only map i have spotted that is in development is RavenWatch, and (i think) Requiem Of HammerWatch. It is nice when you have a wide range of maps to play, but i hope this new update will encourage more people to create maps. I have kinda given up losing all my work, but i hope to see more maps in the future.
What are your guys opinion on this?
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There's no player involved in testing our maps, so why do we will bother to make them if we don't have any feedback to improve them ?
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That is very true, there are certainly not enough players also to test our maps, meaning we won't have anything to improve from. In my case, i have loads to improve, because my DOOM map sucks completely, but obviously i cant improve it, after losing my resources. Only if the Yogscast played the whole of Hammerwatch. . .That would publise it ALOT, and get lots of people to buy Hammerwatch. They played it before, which advertised it quite alot, only if they did it again. It's a shame really.
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I'm well aware of this issue. I wonder how we can get the yogscast to play it again. I'm not sure they really liked it...
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If you rewatch the 3 casts, it seems they did.
Never hurts to ask them.
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I'll play-test any maps for anyone. I used to review levels and make maps myself (Ut2k4, L4D, TF2), but I don't have the time to sink into creating them anymore.
I give plenty of constructive feedback, I'm through and detail-oriented, and I love playing Hammerwatch. If that's what you guys need, I'm here. Send me a message on the forum if you've got something for me to test.
As for the game being inactive and how to publicize - I'm not sure. I think perhaps the nature of the game isn't appealing to the majority of today's gamers.
It can be difficult and somewhat repetitive. It's a huge challenge to play it alone. It's possible to essentially run out of lives and have to start over completely.
And then there's the ending... the ending is brilliant but will frustrate a lot of non-completionist players.
Most people need more gamification to hold their hand through this kind of gameplay, whether it's loot, experience, big numbers, HEADSHOTS, etc.
Some things to help the game do better, in my opinion:
- Full controller / big picture support. This is very much a couch co-op-friendly game. It's not listed on Steam as a full Big Picture Mode game, though.
- Drop-in drop-out multiplayer. I have no idea how to manage this given the current structure of levels and campaigns, but this is something a lot of players thrive on these days. People need a way to grab a character they have in an act of a campaign and hop into a friend's game. An easy way to do this would be perhaps to track the gold of one of the players and just let the new player upgrade on their way in?
- Easier editor. I had a lot of hope for this. I thought you guys would have created a more tile-based solid/non-solid editor that picked out doodads and walls automatically if I just drew the shape of the level. When I opened it up, I was sad. It's super-complicated for a new person to learn, and it's not well documented. Spending development effort on the editor would do much to allow you to make more content and get your community to build it for you. If you make the editor and its file format simple enough, you could potentially leverage that for random level generation.
- More content. Making the editor easier would let you pump out more content faster. There's a lot of players that play until the end of unique content and quit. If you want people to keep playing, you need more content.
- More enemy variety/ai. This is kind of the same thing as the one above. I know that adding a ton of different enemies kind of goes against the gloriously simple design of the game, but it would help relieve some of the repetitive nature.
- Different control schemes.I have a friend who was immediately turned off by this game when he couldn't use the mouse to aim and fire. I'm not sure why he would want to, but there are apparently players out there who instinctively desire this control scheme.
- Singleplayer love.New players need to be cautioned to use an easier difficulty when playing singleplayer. Having friendly AI or something to compensate for the increased difficulty (more health? gold? extra lives?) would go a long ways to making the game more appealing for players. However, you should still probably STRONGLY RECOMMEND people play with friends rather than alone.
I thoroughly enjoy the game and don't want it changed too much from its current formula... but I'd like to see it become more popular and easier to convince friends to play with me. ;)
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- Drop-in drop-out multiplayer. I have no idea how to manage this given the current structure of levels and campaigns, but this is something a lot of players thrive on these days. People need a way to grab a character they have in an act of a campaign and hop into a friend's game. An easy way to do this would be perhaps to track the gold of one of the players and just let the new player upgrade on their way in?
- Easier editor. I had a lot of hope for this. I thought you guys would have created a more tile-based solid/non-solid editor that picked out doodads and walls automatically if I just drew the shape of the level. When I opened it up, I was sad. It's super-complicated for a new person to learn, and it's not well documented. Spending development effort on the editor would do much to allow you to make more content and get your community to build it for you. If you make the editor and its file format simple enough, you could potentially leverage that for random level generation.
- More content. Making the editor easier would let you pump out more content faster. There's a lot of players that play until the end of unique content and quit. If you want people to keep playing, you need more content.
Drop-in Drop-out Multiplayer has been added since 1.2
The editor is pretty easy - as far as editors go. You place things from a list, you add scripts by clicking on options, etc. Most editors are far more complicated - including Blizzard's SC2 editor.
As for more content - more is coming :)
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I did read everything you wrote Corion and I do agree with a lot of things. I really think the editor could be easier to use in some aspects, certain things are just to annoying to do and figure out if you're not used to other map editing software.
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@ Hipshot.
I've spent more time in the editor than in the game. I picked the game up for $3.49 on the autumn sale. Most of my friends followed suit. We're developing a custom level for a LAN/drinking/shooting/manly retreat we hold every few months. The game is easily one of my top 10. And it's easy to customize, but the community is small.
I have one gripe with the editor however. Maybe it's just user error. When I select nodes in a script (for example the OnTrue button for a variable check) the screen edges are cyan. Once I click my target, I have to go to the doodads tab or something to get out of that cyan script/object selection screen.
Overall I like using the editor and your .xmls are very easy to work with.
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You should be able to press Esc to get out of it too.
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I did read everything you wrote Corion and I do agree with a lot of things.
Thanks.
I really think the editor could be easier to use in some aspects, certain things are just to annoying to do and figure out if you're not used to other map editing software.
Given the apparent simplicity of the architecture and objects in the game, I expected a tile-based editor that would let me edit the map on a grid, clicking spots to add or remove walls and have it automatically choose the correct wall section art based on a chosen tileset definition file. I was expecting something on the level of Motocross Madness 1's tile-based editor, Starcraft, or Portal 2's in-game editor. I know it would take a lot of work to code something like that, but it could significantly speed up the level design process for official DLC and custom community maps.
I was just surprised it would take so much initial investment/effort to get a basic map up and running. I've used a lot of more complicated editors, but most of them were for more complicated games (3d spaces, worrying about line-of-sight, poly budgets, z-axis gameplay, etc.) I was surprised you created so much content without the aid of a more quick-and-dirty editor doing more of the initial grunt work for you. :o
Hopefully being a part of the holiday Steam sale will boost your game's visibility. I'm going to buy some extra copies for my friends. ;D