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Author Topic: [Campaign] Tricks and traps - inspired by the Doom II level of the same name  (Read 11125 times)

MrCuddles

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Hi all. While this is not on the scale of some of the amazing work you guys have done, I am very happy with it. I have a full time job and a family to look after so I really had to fight to find the time to do this but I had a lot of fun doing so. The Hammerwatch editor is great fun to use (although it does have it's problems I guess) and I hope to do some more in the future.

  • This campaign is supposed to be reasonably hard and is ideally completed with one or two players.
  • This campaign will probably take you 30 minutes to complete once you have worked it out
  • Ranger is easy mode (as in the vanilla game).
  • There is an optimal path through the level where difficulty ramps up slowly and the upgrades you find allow you to take on the harder rooms.
  • However it is also possible to complete it very quickly once you know where the right keys are.
  • When you finish the campaign it will tell you how many secrets you have found of which there are 7 in total and the aim really is to find them all.

If you play through it and have any opinions please leave a comment here or on my blog post below. To get the map and read more info, please visit my blog here: http://www.lendmeyourear.net/hammerwatch-custom-map.html

Enjay

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Played through it with 2 friends of mine, going Wizard/Paladin, Warlock, and Ranger (Started as a Wizard, and changed to a Paladin for the 2nd attempt). Like you said, it become much simpler once you know what's going on and what to expect. The level was fun, however as someone who's never played doom, and had no idea what the level being recreated was, there were parts of it that definitely seemed pointless, or just out of place. For example, there were all of those upgrades lying about, and although they may have been beneficial, they seemed pointless, as there was no build up through the level. At the end there was just a Skeletal Knight mini-boss, which I ran past to the exit for the win. Having so many lives to start off with (It seemed like 5 per player) meant the playstyle was essentially throw ourselves at problems until we overcame them, and the abundance of food also took away from the feeling of anxiety. That being said, the food was entirely necessary, because by the end we had eaten every piece of it, and were low on lives.

The use of invulnerability potions were interesting, and enjoyable, however since it gave extras so many extras (1 for each player in the bottom room, plus one more at the end of the acid water), when you only needed the one potion to get the key, and the other potion and get out, it essentially allowed for abuse of the potions. In my personal opinion, this is just a fault with invulnerability potions, as they are immensely broken in the normal campaign as well.

The secrets in the level were also lacking, for a game that seemingly was focused on finding these secrets. My group found them all, but I honestly never felt like I found a single one. It's possible that I didn't, and my friends found them all, and didn't announce it, but there was nothing secret feeling about anything I encountered / opened.

Like I said at the beginning, it was fun, but these are just a few point that I feel could be improved upon.

(Also, just as an over-all thing, the scripting could stand being cleaned up a bit, such as not requiring everyone to teleport, not requiring everyone to be present to win, providing excess potions, even when only one person is playing, and so on)
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MrCuddles

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Thanks for your detailed feedback. I'd like to reply to all your points...

The level was fun, however as someone who's never played doom, and had no idea what the level being recreated was, there were parts of it that definitely seemed pointless, or just out of place. For example, there were all of those upgrades lying about, and although they may have been beneficial, they seemed pointless, as there was no build up through the level.
The idea is that the upgrades you find in the easier rooms allow you to complete the harder rooms, but maybe they would be better as valuables so you can buy upgrades rather than powerups. I'll give it some thought.
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At the end there was just a Skeletal Knight mini-boss, which I ran past to the exit for the win.
This is exactly like on the doom map, the goal is to exit the level and you can simply run past most of the enemies if you like. Completionists would enjoy killing everything on the map however I guess.
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Having so many lives to start off with (It seemed like 5 per player) meant the playstyle was essentially throw ourselves at problems until we overcame them, and the abundance of food also took away from the feeling of anxiety. That being said, the food was entirely necessary, because by the end we had eaten every piece of it, and were low on lives.
Maybe I need to make it harder by reducing the amount of food and lives?
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The use of invulnerability potions were interesting, and enjoyable,
Great, exactly as I hoped :)
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however since it gave extras so many extras (1 for each player in the bottom room, plus one more at the end of the acid water), when you only needed the one potion to get the key, and the other potion and get out, it essentially allowed for abuse of the potions. In my personal opinion, this is just a fault with invulnerability potions, as they are immensely broken in the normal campaign as well.
My playtesting had me constantly running out of inv potions but maybe that is because I was doing it mostly solo and it takes a lot longer to kill all the enemies solo. This is probably due to the fact that I haven't made a good job of balancing it for different amounts of players so far I guess. This is certainly something I can improve.
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The secrets in the level were also lacking, for a game that seemingly was focused on finding these secrets. My group found them all, but I honestly never felt like I found a single one. It's possible that I didn't, and my friends found them all, and didn't announce it, but there was nothing secret feeling about anything I encountered / opened.
This is actually a complaint I have with the main campaign too. When playing with 4 people all running around exploring I often found that I had no idea what secret had been opened and where it was opened from. Playing the game solo was much more rewarding in terms of secret finding. What probably happened is that your friends were opening up the secrets out of your view so you simply arrived to open secrets maybe? Playing through solo you should get a much better impression of the secrets. I am particularly proud of the work I put in to the way some of them work. If you have the time or inclination I would try it again solo and you might have a different impression.
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(Also, just as an over-all thing, the scripting could stand being cleaned up a bit, such as not requiring everyone to teleport, not requiring everyone to be present to win
As far as I know, this is not possible to do. I tried to make teleports affect only the person who activated it but was unable to do ss. This might be my ignorance though. I will investigate it further.
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, providing excess potions, even when only one person is playing, and so on)
This is definitely something I can change with improved scripting around the number of players present.

I am satisfied that you enjoyed it though and while there are improvements I can make I am comfortable that the main problems you have seem to be a result of the chaos of 4 player hammerwatch and therefore has something in common with the main campaign rather than something I have done badly.

Thanks so much again, I will release a new version based on your feedback too.

Enjay

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It's 5 am here, so my formatting isn't great, but I'd like to reply to a few of your replies.

You are correct about not being able to move a single person, and I understand the conflicts this has with some of the mechanics in your level. However, I just thought it was worth mentioning that the whole one person step on a spot, teleport the party mechanic felt weird. As is my go-to suggestion (it seems) with mechanics that feel weird, you might want to just throw in an "AnnounceText" script that says something like "The Party has been Teleported" to kind of just say "Shhh, it's okay baby, I meant to do that" So that when your jerk friend throws you all into a trap you get that reassurance.

I feel like valuables as opposed to the upgrades would be more tangible, and worthwhile.

As to the potions, part of me just assumed that they were not meant to be used to kill enemies, and as such I was "Abusing" them by using the excess potions to do that. If that's intentional, then there are just enough. Although maybe you'd want to spread them out a bit? Unless that's a doom parity thing.

In regards to the secrets, I think the main difference between the campaign's secrets and yours is the proximity to the trigger. A bunch of the secrets in the campaign were as tangible as pressing a button and seeing a door open, or knocking down a wall. There were some where you pressed a button and something changed on the other side of the map (And I agree, those were less "fun" but they were more challenging as far as being secrets). In your map, it seemed like pressing buttons never showed you anything happen, but I would then hear my friend start swearing as I unleashed a horde of skeletons upon him unsuspectingly. Again, I didn't play it exhaustively, but I myself am a fan of pressing buttons and then immediately seeing what happens, or knowing at the least that I'm supposed to be seeking it out. (The difference between "A Secret Passage has opened!" and "Something Changes..." One is a congratulation and the other is a challenge, both are fun, but I feel a mix is best)

Good luck continuing on! It's a fun map :)
Every time I post I get nervous because I feel like the devs are judging me.

Hipshot

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As a big fan of Doom and have thus played it a lot both then and now. It's pretty cool to see the tricks and traps level in this game.

MrCuddles

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As a big fan of Doom and have thus played it a lot both then and now. It's pretty cool to see the tricks and traps level in this game.

Thanks for your kind words. Hopefully I can make it even better with Enjay's feedback.

Paiyn

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This was great! Did not yet manage to find all the secrets, but it sure was fun. I did expect some kind of end boss tbh.
But other than that, great work! Keep it up!

MrCuddles

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I just updated the map to fix a few bugs when secrets are revealed, and fiddled with the balance slightly (There are a few more valuables lying around)

Saffy

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I played this 2 player and it was good fun. It was difficult at times, the room with the eye bosses were the hardest but once you figure out a good path for upgrades it becomes a breeze. The end was a bit pointless though, across the fire bridge, the skeleton boss and then end.

MrCuddles

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Yea maybe I need to make the end a bit more hammerwatch like. At the moment it's just like in doom where you finish a level. No fireworks just a screen that tells you how many secrets you found :)

Paiyn

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Yea maybe I need to make the end a bit more hammerwatch like. At the moment it's just like in doom where you finish a level. No fireworks just a screen that tells you how many secrets you found :)

Yeah maybe like a final tough boss battle after that would be kinda cool.